Below are three links that discuss the possible pathways that early North Americans took when colonizing the continent. Two are non traditional and the third is the traditional viewpoint.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science/11/17/carolina.dig/index.html
( map of Topper location) http://www.cnn.com/interactive/maps/us/topper.site/frameset.exclude.html
Topper site
http://www.allendale-expedition.net/
Traditional viewpoint of expansion
http://www.comp-archaeology.org/USPaleo-Indian.htm
The last link seems to be a bit defensive when discussing the previous discoveries. What are you feelings/viewpoints/ideas about this topic. It is important to understand that the generally perceived idea is that human beings migrated to and and settled in North America where they began the systematic extinction of a variety of Ice Age animals.
*** Anjelica - ask your question about Ice Ages again here, please. ****
Remember your initial posts are due within three ( 3 ) days of my posting.
ReplyDelete:)
the links wont let me click on them. =(
ReplyDeletewhat conditions are needed in order to have another ice age? will we be able to survive it?
ReplyDeleteIn the second link, I believe Goodyear really did find the tools, they werent manipulated or just natural stones. Why would he have a reason to lie about it? The other scientisits are just jealous they didnt find such breaking research that could potentially change almost all hypothesis' about North American Colonization.
ReplyDeleteHannah - just copy and paste...works that way too...
ReplyDeleteChrissy - which theory do you believe and why?
i dont believe goodyear's finding are true because the speed at which the first humans would of had to spread would not seem correct because with weather conditions and colonization would have slowed there movement severly
ReplyDeleteRoss- how do you account for the artifacts that were found? Your point is very valid, but the artifacts are there. Did you look at some of the other ideas? Does the traditional make more sense?
ReplyDeleteHow do we account for the artifacts being found in such diverse areas from basically the same time period? Just some puzzling questions that people may want to jump on.........
THE LAND BRIDGEEE!!! if clinton sees this he'll understand.lol I agree with Chrissy. I think as each decade passes we become more advanced in archaeological findings, where and how to find them. Goodyear looked "beyond the norm" and found an intresting discovery. The other scientists are probably angry they quit digging and sometimes it's hard for people to believe something different than what has been drilled into their heads all their lives an example: the amount of years ago humans migrated.
ReplyDeleteI think this article was very cool and I find artifacts of other humans so amazing. We can find out so much from something they made.
Nice and astute observations by both Chrissy and Adair...what about the rest of the APES?
ReplyDeleterealistically can scientists afford to be angry or jealous? Would it color the opinion of the average person?
I most definately have to agree with Adair and Chrissy. I think that alot of the scientists are jealous because Goodyear thought yo dig a little further down just to see what he could find and he proved to be right. I think that because nobody else thought about and it just stopped digging, and because they kept the same HYPOTHESIS (did not actually state it true before putting it in textbooks to be taught!!!) they are now upset because of the new discovery. I do not think scientists can afford to be angry or jealous, I think they should just accept the fact that Goodyear managed to go further in his studies and help him to discover more.
ReplyDeleteInteresting point, Matt. What do we do with all the books that have material about the Bering Strait land bridge?
ReplyDeleteADAIR ITS THE BERING STRAIT. ahahaha. as for the articles, i say Ross has a good point, and the wrong form of "their." I also say the Topper site looks like a lot of fun, and a good deal for only $66 dollars being non tax deductable.
ReplyDeleteClinton - what is your view as to the accuracy of one theory or the other? do they both have vaild points?
ReplyDeleteI believe that they did find the tools..people could have been here even before dinosaurs. We got to think when did the human race really start and how? The land use to be one big land and they seperated in time...Cavemen could have roamed the lands before then.
ReplyDeleteI think that they need to do further reserach because obviously their previous hypothesis was wrong, meaning that the text for that specific part of the study can now possibly be ignored. I think that scientists should come up with a conclusive result before making any conclusions like publishing new textbooks to go out to schools like they have for many years.
ReplyDeleteHuzzah!!! Way way true statement, oh wise Matt!!!
ReplyDeleteShelby - you have to remember that dinosaurs were ~ 65 million years ago. the earliest human (in Africa not in North America - we weren't here yet ) is ~ 3.5 - 4 million years ago. I truly agree that what they call Paleo-Indians could have roamed our continent much earlier than originally thought, but probably not quite that far back. :)
ReplyDeleteGreat post though...keep up the good work!
I believe the first one...the answer to the instantaneous expansion would be the ALIENS!!! they have been givin us a hand for all of time...i think they killed off the dinosaurs so that it would be easier for humans to live in peace, then when we started to move around they saw the North American continent with no one on it and thought to themselves "hey...this is a pretty nice land, lets take some of our little homo sapien friends over" and the rest is history.
ReplyDeleteEmory - interesting concept....now post one that is article driven....ok? hmmm?
ReplyDeleteremember that initial posting ends at 11pm on Friday night.
ReplyDeleteI am in second period and was showing them our blog! We are learning about blogs and Email in Second Period today so I was showing them everything we have been doing on here! They think that this is really cool!
ReplyDeleteGo Matt! Brag on yourselves, I approve!!
ReplyDeleteI read the first article and i personally think that it is a possiblity that they settled in North America around that same time. Who know they could of settled a lot earlier that what the first article is saying. So i guess in a way i agree with goodyear (i believe thats the one who says humans settled here earlier than they were said to of settled here, please correct me if i'm wrong)
ReplyDeleteI think its interesting to think that all this information that they thought was correct for so long, is actually not as true as they thought. So what do they do from here? Like Matt A. said, they need to gather more data, more facts, and create a new hypothesis to fit with the new discoveries before they even think of publishing their new theories. Inconclusive evidence? I think so.
ReplyDeletei believe that goodyear is really on to something. and i agree with chrissy, adair and matt. they are jealous because of what he found and there trying to prove him wrong so they will feel better. i think what he found is going to start up an amazing search of new artifacts to prove that they came earlier than what they thought. and to comment about angelicas question... i dont know what causes an ice age but in my opinion i believe that we could survive it because of all of the advanced machines and warnings. we have alot that could help us get through the ice age if it happens again.
ReplyDeleteI agree, we do need to do more testing and collect more data to determine whether or not it is true. Due to our new advances in technology i think scientist will be proving a lot of thing that they thought were true, false.
ReplyDeleteMy overall view on this is that all science really is is scientist trying to prove each other wrong since the beginning when man thought the world was flat is was scientist trying to prove that age old theory wrong.(i know the "is is" is wrong)
ReplyDeleteand matt you stole my picture
ReplyDeletehaha Ross you actually have a point with scientists just wanting to prove each other wrong... its like playing "I can" and that is where the jealousy comes in. The other scientists are mad because Goodyear said I can show that man was here before they orignially expected, and he did.
ReplyDeleteAnd Ross I am sorry but I found it and put it up here so its your loss, lol
Very interesting.....I am better than you - no you aren't ; yes I am ! Pretty sad isn't it....do you think that this rivalry at least causes further discoveries?
ReplyDeleteI do believe that in a sense Mrs. B. I believe that trying to outshine other scientists has often led to downfall and failure... but sometimes it has led to success and new discoveries, like Goodyear and his discovery of inhabitance of the Wetern Hemisphere.
ReplyDelete(are you asking a question to us or are you stating your statement) but Yes i do believe the rivalry will cause futher discoveries because one is going to try and prove the other one wrong and i'm sure in the proccess one or the other will stumble upon something and either rewrite history or make a new discovery
ReplyDelete1) You do have to tajke into account that there are a few people out there who could care less about the whole "my horse is bigger than yours." The artifacts are there, so it does seem highly probable that the findings could be viable.
ReplyDelete2) Well, of course the rivalry is going to lead to more discoveries, its like the race to space... We made so many adnvances so fast because evry one wanted to do it first. The archaeologists all want that pleasure of saying "I found it first." I know I wanna say that one day! ;D
Jonte - I never make a statement. Always a question.... :)
ReplyDeleteThat is very true Kathryn. Hope that it is more true than not , but sometimes I wonder, you know?
I have a question. If the scientists are so gung-ho on proving each other wrong, why did it take seventy-five years for someone to even think about trying to prove the original theory wrong. Technology advances every day. It is practically against the scientific method to immediately accept a hypothesis as fact without testing it thoroughly. It seems to be proof of society's quest for quick answers that one person can say something and it is immediately accepted as fact.
ReplyDeleteP.S. Kathryn you totally stole my gorilla picture, now I'm going to have to change it!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteWell Haley, I understand what you are saying, but within thta span of 75 years, don't you believe that scientists were doing all they could just to prove that theory wrong? I mean its not exactly an easy theory to contradict, which is probably why it took so long. Oh by the way, Ms.Bosiak its officially midnight and I STILL cant get the video to work. I tried retaping it on a digital camera, which wouldnt work either, I tried uploading the videos on itunes and putting them on my ipod, and I tried converting the files. I'm very stubborn and cant stand to give up, but i guess there is nothing more I can do, but I did make the slideshow presentation, which counts as media I guess?
ReplyDeleteChrissy - yes slide show will work.
ReplyDeleteAs to the question of 75 years of no advancement - could it be that maybe they were complacent and assumed that they had the definitive answer?
Well, that could be true as well, but just like other theories such as the components of the atom. At the moment it seems like everyone agrees on the theory of the nucleus and electrons, but who is to say there is not that one group of people doing all they can to prove it wrong? Oh and someone should definitely tell them not to assume...it always ends up bad :)
ReplyDeleteI agree about the scientist rivalry. It seems as though they let that get in the way of them getting further research done. They are way to concentrated on proving each other wrong or doing better than the others that they get angry when someone else comes in and does what they were trying to do.
ReplyDeleteI think Goodyear was right.Digging deeper is the key. He seems like a pretty awesome scientist. =)
I also find the Bering Strait Bridge pretty cool. I can only imagine it. And the ancient human artifacts. Wow.
although i still think aliens did it, i will play along with you Mrs. B.
ReplyDeleteI believe the first theory because it seems logical to me that people have been all around for a LONG time...why did they have to start out on 1 single continent?? for all we know they could keep digging deeper and deeper and find more and more artifacts. It says in the site for the traditional theory that it has been believed for awhile that people migrated earlier than ~11500BC.
just because we havent found artifacts that prove it doesnt mean it didnt happen...they have not found a fossil for EVERY dinosaur so why do they have to find artifacts for EVERY group of peoples?
Emory is right. Not about the aliens, but about the digging. Now that Goodyear has dug further down and made new discoveries, what makes them think they cant try to dig any further. I am sure now that more scientists are going to play the I can do this better game and try and dig even deeper than Goodyear did and claim a new discovery.
ReplyDeleteDid that make sense?
aha i get it now i was confused at first but matt is right since he has found things other people would go deeper and find even more things right....
ReplyDeleteor would anything deeper have decade already??
aha me and Matt agree!
ReplyDeletewe just need to call on the aliens to help us dig DEEP.
or we could just ask them...
oh and brittney:
ReplyDeleteif things fossilized they would not have decayed (decade is 10 years =P)
if its an artifact then they dont have to fossilize
okay so this is going to sound totally repetitive but as everyone else is saying.. i don't understand why it is so hard to believe that people were over here earlier than originally thought. If the data is there you can't say hey thats not true. Scientist make new discoveries and big shocker they're right. It's like when people used to think that the atom was the samllest thing til they split it open and inside there was something even smaller.. Digging deeper provided more informatiom. So basically digging deeper was like splitting open an atom. And guess what happened? a new discovery! Scientist need to suck it up and lose the pride.
ReplyDeleteok i can't type but i meant..
ReplyDeletesmallest* and information*
I am sure that since the discovery more scientists are trying to find artifacts even older than the ones that were found, though it could take them seventy five years to find a new discovery. I agree with the thought that it is possible that humans have been here longer than people believe. Is it so hard to believe that people were all over the world tens of thousands of years ago?
ReplyDeleteone thing that you all need to consider when you are pondering man "sprouting up" on more than one continent at a time is that they do have evidence for man at different stages in our progress. these clovis people are quite sophisticated for their time and there does not appear to be simultaneous continental generation.....not to mention that there was substantial ice coverage over the major portion of the northern hemisphere....
ReplyDeletejust some more fodder for thought
I not doubting that they found something from years before they thought humans were in the United States, but if they came from the land bridge wouldn't there need to be artifacts found somewhere between Alaska and South Carolina? The people would have needed to travel that far to get to where they found the artifacts, unless they came here some other way. I think that they need to find evidence elsewhere before they come to any hypothesis or conclusion.
ReplyDeleteGabby - there are huge areas in Oklahoma and the southwest that have clovis type artifacts. However, you raise a very good point and there are some scientists that think original paleopeople came in through what is now california since there are Clovis sites there as well. the main stumbling block seems to be the ice. Most opponents of the Bering Strait land bridge ( this includes Native Americans) would like evidence that there was this little small area in such a huge glacial ice sheet that people could have " just walked through". These opponents think the settling of N.America began on the lower west coast and came across the lower tier of what would become states to the east coast. My brother was a soil scientist in Oklahoma and on one of his sampling expeditions, he found a museum quality Clovis point.
ReplyDeleteWell... They need to dig deeper in the places between Alaska and South Carolina. SC is the only place they've branched out in that area so yeah there probably are more artifacts that will be found if the effort is made.
ReplyDeleteMrs B. you beat me :(
ReplyDeletewhy do they HAVE to find artifacts for everything? i mean dang, why couldnt there have been some beastly tornadoes or something back then like there are now in the midwest? stuff gets destroyed- leave it to little kids to break stuff. and the ice age people could have built igloos and worn mammoth coats of course. idk...i think its totally reasonable to think people have been here since before 11500BC
ReplyDeleteI know I am a little late getting involved in this, but this is what I think. I don't buy into the whole "scientists were mad that Goodyear proved them wrong." Because if the last major discovery was 75 years ago, then most of those scientists and archaelogists are dead; therefore, modern scientists have no personal investment or attachment to this theory. However, they can try to out do each other for intellectual reasons, but I don't think it is personal. Also, the Topper discovery is very new and highly theoretical; so until more testing is done I am postponing making my decision of which theory I believe. I also don't think that having the land brige theory still being printed in books is a bad thing because even if it proves to be wrong, it is our duty as educated people to be informed of the ideas and theories of the past; which is necessary for the growth of new ideas. New theories and old theories are both equally important because they both move the scientific community closer in the direction of the truth.
ReplyDeleteLuke, you have to consider that even though the last major discovery was about 75 years ago, it was only a hypothesis, so there was no conclusive evidence that that was the first time humans were here. So that goes back to what Emory asked about needing artifacts for everything. Sometimes artifacts are the only proof we have about the subject.
ReplyDeleteI dont think that it was ever stated to be a personal matter of jealousy, but in a sense if you think of it, the "jealousy" is what pushes the scientists to make new discoveries.
Does it make sense the way i just said it there?
Mrs. B, the links aren't letting me click on them either! & i have to post it by tonight!
ReplyDeleteJust wanted to add that what they're printing in textbooks is what people believe to be true. If you feel that people need to be informed of everything then it should be stated as a theory or hypothesis... Because in textbooks they usually just give out facts.
ReplyDeletei believe that matt makes a good point. artifacts are sometimes the only proof we have to learn about a subject. However, i do think that even though there may not be artifacts left to prove it, due to natural disaters(like what emory said) or just general decay over time, it is possible that there could have been colonies here.
ReplyDeleteI think Goodyear is on to something with his discovery of the tools. I also agree with Megan that the artifacts found are solid proof; however, more tests need to be done in order to have sound evidence.
ReplyDeletethe theory that man started on islands in the pacific is so stupid. And i hope we dont survive the next ice age where a plague on earth!!!
ReplyDeleteI think it was amazing how much the early colonists traveled. They definitely used the beiring straight!
ReplyDeleteAbout the theory being printed in textbooks, I think that textbooks should print fact, not guesses that may or may not be right. Or at least put an asterisk after the theory.
ReplyDeleteThank you Emilee and Haley for agreeing!!! They printed the previous hypothesis because they thought it to be fact. However, because they stopped digging, they didnt know there was more. So I do agree that if they are going to print it in books, that yes haley they should state it or put something to indicate theories!
ReplyDeleteKnox and Nathan ;guys - you need to be a bit more conversational. Remember I told you that this was not a forum for short comments after the first posting.
ReplyDeleteHaley - I love the asterisk idea.
There is solid evidence for the ability of early humans to travel across the ocean. Be careful that you don't assume that the origination place was the islands. Origination was continental Africa ( particularly the Olduvai Gorge area). From there it would have been and easy hop, skip and jump to either coast and from there to various other places.
Wonder what the next 75 years will bring?
Hollis - copy and paste. that works good.
ReplyDeletei know this is late, but my computer went stupid :(
ReplyDeleteFirst off i think it's amazing how this theory came to be through radiocarbon testing. I do believe this could be true. Goodyear backed it up so well.
I agree with Ross on the whole situation. I also don't believe Goodyear's findings are true because of the weather conditions and also because this basically goes against everything we have ever learned about human colonization and the time it took for the people to settle down. Emilee, I do agree with you that scientists make new discoveries daily and most of the time, they are right, but I believe that in some cases history overrules the newer discoveries of scientists.
ReplyDeleteintial postings closed. You may continue to respond to each other as you choose.
ReplyDelete