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Garrett Hardin's Tragedy of the Commons
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I do agree people have differnet views as "good". Some people will settle for a twenty dollar gift while some want more! I think a big part of that is how you were raised!
ReplyDeleteI honestly think population is growing because we are finding new ways to prevent death. Honestly I believe it's a wonderful thing because two years ago they didn't not have this heart piece that probably could have saved my dad's life. People will argue I'm against life support..I'm against playing God..but once you see what it's like to loose someone..you realize just one more day would be better than nothing!
Question-Is it better for a species to be small and hideable, or large and powerful?
Also is better to loose a couple cows due to over crowding..or make more money by producing more??
We are a species that thrives in excess. Bigger tv's, bigger value meals, fancier cars, more,more and more.Can this human desire ever be maintained or controlled?
ReplyDeleteAnd generally speaking part of our way of upbringing like Natalie mentioned is do good in school, make tons of money,have a big family and thus creates more need and so on and so on. Can it be that the population is growing because it is encouraged through state,government and media?
ReplyDeleteJake I totally agree with you. The human race is always about "keeping up with the Jones" and we have never really lost that train of thought or need. Our needs are never fully fulfilled so we always want more. Everything is bigger and better, just like computers become useless after only a couple years. To think of maintaining our wants and needs would take a huge catastrophic event.
ReplyDeleteOne more thought like the article mentioned. A family with 7 kids wont suffer left to their own devices because they can get support for food and other necessities.Not to jab at the needy but with such a fine safety net to drop in we really can not complain.
ReplyDeletekeeping up with the jones...best way to put it
ReplyDeleteAnd I was worried that the article would have you all stumped! Shame on me! You all continue to prove me wrong. I will post a specific comment for response tomorrow so everyone will have a chance to read both articles....thanks Natalie, Chris and Jake for getting us started.
ReplyDeleteSara says:
ReplyDeleteWouldn't the dumping of cruise ship waste be considered breaking the "innocent passage" rule in territorial waters?
What an outstanding comment......replies oh great apes?
ok so that dumping the waste into the ocean. totally disgusting. i havent ever been on a cruise and i would love to go. but come on now..thats just gross. we wonder why fish die sometimes...gah.
ReplyDeletethe cruising itself is incredible......but I sometimes wonder at what cost, you know?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8yOamWq3a0 might helpppp
ReplyDeleteWhen I went on my cruise the ship was at a distance from beach area. The law states three miles from shore it's allowed to dumb...I read "It get's pumped out at every port.This is one of the reasons why we pay port taxes & Gov't fees. "
WE CAN STOP THIS BY GOING TO!
(http://go.care2.com/e/jcL/iH/e_GB)
I did find out that aircraft carriers do not dump waste.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AJNukeykjc is a video on Bonaire waste water!!
ReplyDeletethanks for ruining my cruise experience guys.ha.
ReplyDeletebuttt, i do believe it may break the "innocent passage" thing cause dumping that nastiness is anything but innocent. However, if there are no laws for dumping it three miles out then i guess its "innocent" until proven illegal.
Morgan,
ReplyDeleteThe cruising is awesome and you will have a great time.....just be in touch with what is real....
ok so i just read that tragedy of the commons article. i wanted to rip my hair out the whole time. i probably will not remember any of it tomrrow. gah..
ReplyDeletewe will help you....it isn't really that bad once we dissect it!!
ReplyDeleteI believe the waste needs to be pumped in a floating barge which is actually a floating factory that uses the scrap food and sewage into usable natural fertilizers without the excess chemicals. Your engineering tip of the day.
ReplyDeleteThere is a section in the "Commons" called Freedom to breed is intolerable. In that section it talks about how families with great amounts of children are left to their own resources they will die and stabilize in pop. numbers. It then goes on to talk about how we as a soceity dont let this happen because we are so tied up in welfare and benefit programs. I see evidence of this everyday and im sure some of you have heard about it through my Foodlion Horror stories but the gov't actually pays families with more children more money and gives them greater tax breaks and help. i have seen so many families come in with 5 or 6 children and get 200 or 300 dollar grocery orders and put it all on EBT, which is food stamps. If EBT was not there, then these families would not be able to feed their children and pop. growth wouldn't be a problem(im not faulting anyone on food stamps...so if anyone is on them please dont take offense) Gov't funding has become a commons in a way because many use and abuse the welfare and help systems and our economy goes down the drain, which hurts the individuals who actually need the help and everybody loses.
ReplyDeleteI agree Matt the governtment has completely helped welfare become what it is, the government does'nt regulate it and therfore it becomes nothing more than a way not to work. I've heard of people who traded food shamps for cigareets and there the ones who were supposedly taking care of??? Also, Im tired of hearing there are no jobs, there may not be many but, I know there are some out there, its just many people on welfare dont really have the initive to find a job when the givernment will take care of them. I agree though welfare does help many people though i just wish it were better regulated. I just finished reading the essay and the comments and it really bothers me that our whole way of life is based on keeping up with "Jone's" , does that mean that even in school were not there to really learn and impact our lives, but rather to pass the "test" or make the grade to keep up with our classmates and friends. Therfore were not really doing anything with pure motives, but rather just to be better than the next person, who I wonder if is really that great.
ReplyDeleteY'all really don't want to get me started on the flawed welfare system, but I definitely agree with Matt and Olivia in that the system needs an overhaul. However, as the "most prominent country in the world", is it our duty to "keep up" poverty-stricken homes? That's an idea of the commons: everyone is paying taxes for the "greater good", yet some benefit substaintially more from government services.
ReplyDeleteThe rubutle would have been accurate in the 1800's, but in this day in age the tragedy at the commons is very accurate. With the economic situations we are facing the herdsmen used in the analogy are more likely to doing every thing possible to prosper financially. We as a species do tend to be greedy so the tragedy at the commons is something we need to worry about.
ReplyDeleteIt is a sad truth that we are one of the most selfish species on the planet. Just because we have the ability to take over everything does not neccesarily give us the right to. But I think that a lot of people feel that we deserve to do what we want because we were supposed to be the top dogs. Mrs. Maxwell brought up an interesting point in biology the other day. If we act for ourselves and only for ourselves without regard to other things on earth just imagine how small the variety of life on earth will be in the next 500 years.
ReplyDeleteWasn't welfare only supoes to last through the great depression???
ReplyDeleteAs humans approach their maximum capacity we move farther and farther away from our optimum capacity. The more people on the planet the less room their is for pleasure and enjoyment. With this being basic knowledge to many people how come nobody seems to really be concerned with this problem of over-population?
ReplyDeleteIt will take less than 500 years for that biodiversity to become very small.....good point Billy.
ReplyDeleteBen,
How do we control the population? Who do we set limits on? Who is the who setting the limits?
Yes Wolfie that was the original plan, just like income tax was supposed to be temporary...
ReplyDeleteWell let's not get carried away with controlling the population thing before we end up like China. I honestly don't see a way to control it because if the government were to tell the people that they could only have a certain amount of babies, wouldn't that be going against the whole "do what you want" thing in America?
ReplyDeleteBrittney,
ReplyDeleteso is the idea of population control a mute point? Do we just ignore the fact that as an animal species we are a bit out of control numbers wise. In nature, in the real world, those populations of animals at high numbers with no predators usually crash.....
if we haveto do population control we might just have to do what china is doing, haing the government limiting families to having one kid
ReplyDeleteWhy doesn't the government shoot two birds with one stone, and simply refuse to give welfare to families with a specific number of children who lack a set educational level like a GED or a diploma. Or lower the amount donated, based on the potential income a family unit could have. Or better yet, we could take all the senior citizens of the country,put them in a specific state where they can retire and tax the heck out of it. (Like Florida)
ReplyDeleteLike I stated before we have new tech. that exceeds beyond when God wanted us to die. We are playing God! Many people have survived because of pace makers, surgery, and other things...yes they are great..but really it's over crowding us...I don't know my views on life support I don't want to be hooked to it..but I wouldn't want my family to go through the pain of loosing me..but when you have no chance of life..why go on life support--But also....whenever you are given welfare money..or have eight children..and the gov. supports your family..what good does that do....if you can't support a child..NO NEED TO HAVE ONE!
ReplyDeleteoops! that last comment I posted was from Natalie...sorry Natalie!
ReplyDeleteAny responses to Logan? What is stopping the US from taking that stand?
ReplyDeleteNatalie says:
ReplyDeleteWhen I went on my cruise the ship was at a distance from beach area. The law states three miles from shore it's allowed to dumb...I read "It get's pumped out at every port.This is one of the reasons why we pay port taxes & Gov't fees. "
WE CAN STOP THIS BY GOING TO!
(http://go.care2.com/e/jcL/iH/e_GB)
I did find out that aircraft carriers do not dump waste.
I can't wait to see how we react to the next food game..when some of us have nothing..
ReplyDeletewe fought over little gold fish :-x
Megan says:
ReplyDeleteI know this took me forever to respond to, but my internet was down. I totally agree with Natalie on what she said at the very beginning. I'm also against playing God, yes I'm thankful for all the medical advances that we have now, but sometimes it does more harm than good. Even though there probably was a way to save my little sister, I don't think it was supposed to happen. She was meant to die, (I know that sounds horrible), and I think that's what Garret Harding is trying to get at is yes population control, and yes people don't want to die at a young age, but I don't think this earth has the capacity to keep up with us as we keep growing. It has to stop somewhere. And like it was pointed out, welfare is such a huge problem I think. There are so many deserving families who need it while others who are perfectly capable of taking care of themselves without the government's help are taking it all away. I say anarchy. Anarchy could solve everything. (Duh, Karma!) And in response to Logan, I don't think we could move all the old people to a different state, like Florida or something, they would be too stubborn to leave where they are. They were there first, so why don't we move?
Your faces were pretty good when one table got almost all the cake this morning...
ReplyDeletehaha we get pretty serious about our cake mrs B:)
ReplyDeleteWho knows about all of this? maybe, as I have said before, we won't have to resort to measures as extensive as the Chinese have. Maybe the Earth will do as it has always done, keep the balance, even when at the peak of human destruction of the Earth.
ReplyDeleteWow, I am waayyy late on posting this, but I think like Anna does. Eventually, Mother Nature will find a way to balance everything. While we keep finding ways to prevent death, there will always be something that we just cannot prevent.
ReplyDeleteI'm waiting to see what the response will be of some on the next food game...when they will have nothinglol
ReplyDeleteJustin says
ReplyDeleteTragedy of the Commons
I whole-heartedly agree with Jake’s comment about humans, especially American’s, being a society that thrives in excess. As he alluded to, we want the biggest televisions, the biggest cars, the biggest house (also known as McMansions). For American’s, this sentiment has always been with us historically, since the time of the American Revolution when the underdog (United States colonies) defeated the military superpower, Britain. However, the fact of the matter is, population is growing at an unprecedented rate. We all want the best for our children and we all want the best for ourselves. This, on paper is great. But, in execution, the idea puts a strain on resources. The more income you make, the more things you will buy generally. Since you have more disposable income, it makes sense. If everyone makes a six-digit income, money will be flying everywhere and things will be flying off the shelves like crazy. Like Christopher said, “Our needs are never fully fulfilled so we always want more.” I agree one-hundred percent with that statement. In one sense, we are “fixing” this problem. Families are getting smaller and smaller especially in developed countries where children are generally no longer used as work. My grandfather had thirteen other brothers and sisters in the early 1910’s. Now, very rarely (unless you are dealing with Octo-Mom) do you see families with more than five or six children and usually it is more like two or three. As far as the food stamps issue goes, that is a way of sustaining people and populations. But, I have a problem with some of these measures. I tend to feel very passionate toward the Malthusian view of life. I tend to feel that poverty, disease and hunger are ways to help control populations. “Survival of the ‘fittest.’” I know it sounds harsh, but I tend to feel that way toward the various forms of strife people go through to survive on this planet. Now, do I feel death to all on welfare? NO!! But, I think instances of disease, poverty and other strife are ways that population is controlled “naturally.”
I hate that i wasn't there for the other food game :(.
ReplyDeleteor maybe it was a good idea lol.